Well, a snare one got started so what the heck. I know I'm not the only one who needs a little insight on tuning.
My line uses Evans MX heads with a strip of foam glued to the outside of the head. We tune to minor thirds, and I've only helped tune once so I don't know what pitches the BD prefers. I've found the best way to tune, for me, is to take the harness off the bass and tap both heads with my fingernails, while adjusting pitches as I rotate the drum.

Same rules apply to this thread as they did in the Snare Equipment, but just for a reminder:

Thread Guidelines
Post your tuning methods for the world to see. Tell us what kind of sound you are going for and have achieved. Tell us what heads you are using and even the tools you have on hand to tune the heads. Go into every detail on your tuning method (I don't want to see any one line tuning descriptions). Tell us what has and hasn't worked for you. Like any other thread, if your post is off-topic it will be deleted. If your post is not in a descriptive format it will be deleted. There isn't any need for conversation to go on between members in this thread. Let us make this a pure reference thread for members to easily find different tuning methods without having to read through garbage. This can be an invaluable guide for somebody to find information if it is done right.

Well, jimi_thing and I tried to go for the Cadets tuning in a recording of them playing street time. However, I'm not sure which version it is and am not very sure if we even got it! However, the pitches that we got, we're happy with so its all good in our book.

Anyway, we started with the bottom bass and tuned it to the lowest possible pitch with good tone mind you. So our bottom bass (which is a relatively small one at 26") sounds like the bass from a car and roars like a cannon if its hit just right.

The next was the top bass(or dink as I like to call it). We (or rather jimi did) tuned it to the range of about where it'd be for the final product.

After tuning the dink we filled in the rest of the range by listening to the recording of the Cadet's street time and tuning it by ear.

After that little filler the fine tuning began on all the bass drums and all were brought up to the pitch we wanted them at and filled the range in between the dink and the bottom bass.

*If one drum was too close to the drum above or below it in pitch that said drum was brought up in terms of tuning until there was a discernable separation between the two.

We also muffled the basses with weather stripping about an
1 1/2" or 1 1/4" wide x 1/4" or 1/2" thick stuck on the drum head itself around the whole inside of the rim.

Drumheads were the Evans MX1 with the "built-in" muffling (that fell off) completely removed. Hopefully we'll be using the smooth white emperor or ambassador from Remo next year....hopefully.

The drums themselves were Pearl Championship Series:
18", 20", 22", 24", 26". Newly recoverd with a kind of brushed silver cabinet liner.

**All this was accomplished by two high school kids and a few drum keys. Not to mention the greasy hamburgers and caffinated beverages consumed during the process. So, basically anyone can do it as long as you have the sound that you want in your head.

Tuning is so tricky these days with split parts. My school did it cavies style and I loved. We did use those cruddy Evans MX-1's with the fake muffling that doesn't work.

Tune the top drum to medium tension then put but both your hands in the middle of the head, CPR style, and SLOWLY lean on it until you have most of your weight pushing on it. This gets some of the preliminary stretching out of the way so the tuning wont go apenuts as soon as you start playing.

Then you can tune the top pitch to where you want but don't crank it so high that it looses power! The it's minor third, minor third, major third, fifth. If you are planning on adding foam, do it BEFORE you try to tune! It will change your quality of sound dramatically.

To check pitch I always have the bass player that will play it actually wear the drum and use the mallets that he will be playing with. This may make the heads a little uneven in tension, but if that's how it will be played I don't see how it makes sense to tune them otherwise, eh?

*We had Yamaha's 16, 20, 24, 28, 32 I think. Anyway, have fun and remember it's about the SOUND of the drums. Don't tune them a certain way just because someone else does. Make sure it's the sound that you want.

32?!
Freaking sweet.
Our center snare tuned our top 3 basses today. We tune for a high, tight sound. Our top bass was first, and we pretty much torqued it. We use Yamaha drums with the Yamaha heads that came with them. It's as high as it can go. We have a tuner, and we used it once and always go for the same sound, high and tight. Same thing with the second and third, and once he gets to them, fourth and fifth. We want them to be tight so they can pronounce the notes better, because we have a lot of sexlet runs and we want them as sick as possible. Higher is better for us.
BUT, we got new drums today, so we're going to probably have to tune those all over again. They look pretty, too. But yeah, we're going to tune those, and I'll be there for that, so I'll tell you how we tune those once it happens.

Let me think. Okay.

First: I AM THE ONLY ONE THAT TOUCHES OR TUNES THE HEAD ON ANY DRUM! This is one rule that is rock solid. I've had too many numbskulls overtighten one side of a k-falam and have it rip out of the hoop. I'm gonna beat this into my center snare if it's the last thing I do.
CS: "Keefe, why does my drum sound like crap?"
Me: "Probably because you keep tightening it without knowing what the hell you're doing."
That's a real conversation. And it happens frequently.

Okay, bass heads.

First step: putting on the heads.
First, I seat the head, then finger tighten tension rods. Then, I have the hundred pound kid sit on it and bounce up and down a little. Then I let it rest while I repeat this on the other side. Once this is done, I have the kid pick it up, and I make sure the logo is straight.

Second step: tuning the bottom.
Here, I will have the entire bass line either on stands or wearing their drums. Don't tune while the drum is sitting on the floor; it changes the tonal quality. I start on the bottom. I tighten it slowly with quarter turns going alternately on the head until it's tight enough to get a nice, natural tone from the drum. That's my starting pitch. I make sure the whole head is in pitch with itself by flicking with my finger about three inches in from each lug casing and inbetween as well. I repeat this on the other side.

By flicking, I mean that I push my finger into the head and flick it out, like when testing timpani. You get a good pitch without overtones.

Step three: tuning the rest of the line.
Now I go up the line. I generally put a fifth between bottom and four, then fourths from there on up. If the top needs to be a little more boned than this allows, I'll go fifths on all of them. I repeat the tuning process I mentioned earlier, and make sure they're the same left to right as well. I know a lot of people swear by thirds, but I get congrats from judges on my percussion tape for bass tuning at nearly every show, so I'm going to keep on keeping on.

The entire time, I usually have the line play eights down and up on each side to hear the intervals on runs. If it's no good, I have to rethink my tuning.

Depending on the demands of the show, you may have to go higher or lower than you like. We played a dirty jazz show a few years ago that sounded better with lower pitches across the board. It offended my DCI senses, but it really worked better. I learned to deal with it.

when you get to the muffling aspect of bassdrums, its all about personal preference. Many people like a Dry sound, and they add more foam to the drums. While others like less foam for more of a sustained sound.

Theres really no wrong way about muffling a bassdrum, i have my own method in which i foam, and tune my basses, and its worked well with the HS lines, Indoor and Drumcorps line i have taught.


i go to www.foamonline.com
Click on rectangular shaped Foam.
Type in the Length [ pi(d) ], Width (3" or 15"), and Height (at the bottom of this post)


for indoor: 15" wide or 17" depending on the width of some of the wider bottom basses. (that way it sticks out 1/2" from both sides and you make sure that its touching both heads. and it covers the whole inner shell of the drum.)

for outdoor: Two 3" wide strips per drum

height (thickness):
16- 1"
18- 1"
20- 1.5"
22- 1.5"
24- 2"
26- 2"
28- 2.5"
30- 2.5"
32- 3"

then the length you would have to do the Pi x D formula.


if the drums sound too dry, you can always take an exacto knife and cut the foam to ur liking....if your line does indoor....i HIGHLY recommend the foam all the way around.

I like my bassdrums dry with little sust ains, but enough for the tone to cut through. Reason being, I am very anal about how my basslines play, and if they're going to make mistakes. I want everyone to hear it. And I want the judges to catch it too, so that they can be called out. The drier the drum, the more exposed they are, and the easier it is to tell what type of notes theyre playing. Instead of just hearing all tone and no impacts.


the Thickness is what is listed with the 1"-3"

the width is how wide the foam will be, that is glued to the inner shell...

the Length is how long you want it...if you want it to go all the way around the inner shell of the drum you will use the formula i listed:

Pi x D = 3.14 multiplied by the diameter of the drum...

for example for a 16" bass drum you will do-

3.14 x 16" = 50.24" thats how long the foam would be...

so:
L= 50.24"
W= 3"
Height (thickness) - 1"

Buy 2 strips and drum 1 is done.

now go to the next...18"

3.14x18 = and so on.



when you plug the numbers into the website, you will click add to cart and make sure you order 2 of this. Since you will need two 3" strips per side of each drum...


it shouldnt cost more than $40...which is a steal compared to how much you would spend per pack of yamaha or pearl foam that can only be used once. This foam you buy to your specific liking and ur good to go....


oh VERY IMPORTANT...make sure you order HIGH DENSITY FOAM under the foam type heading..... and for firmness Medium Soft.

The Spray Glue is 3M Super 77.


As far as Tuning goes...

I go with a pretty simple method. I'm not the type that grabs a tuner and tunes to any specific pitch. It takes too much time and musically, unless the show you're playing is in 5 notes, just isn't worth it in my opinion.

I get my desired Drop (tone) of Bottom bass, and the tune up from there. I tune to perfect 4ths or.. the "Here comes the bride" technique. This way, drums 1 3 & 5 are the same note but different octaves and 2 &4 are same the same note but different octaves. Plus you have a nice equal interval between drums and it covers the ranges you would want.

Next thing...heads....

My personal preference is the Remo Emperor. Yes..this is a 2 ply head. these heads are very crankable and sound very good when muffled correctly and tuned correctly.

I also like the Remo Ambassador heads. My only issue is the life span of these heads. Since theyre 1-ply heads, they only sound good for a certain period of time. If you have a hard hitting bassline, like I do, then these heads aren't for you.

We just removed the Evans heads from the basses at the HS i teach. The heads sound EXCELLENT. But like the ambassadors..dont last too long...Plus i hate the muffling system. Good idea...but doesnt work too well. You will always get a buzzing sound from the lower drums. (yes..i've done it correctly)

The next heads on my list are the New Remo Powermax heads...i hear they have the same style system as the evans heads, but more thought out.

What did Karadek mean when he said, "I'll then let the kid sit on it and bounce up and down for a bit"? I did not get that at all. Could someone tell me what that is for?

It's a reference to how he stretches out the heads before tuning them.

A little CPR-style pressure from your hands will work just fine, I don't know that I would have a kid jump on the drum.

Oh, okay. I see. Yes, I would probably just go with CPR to stretch the heads, but to each his own.

I personally don't suggest you sit or jump on a head to stretch it. Once you put it on, Crank it a bit..and let it sit for a while....allow the head to settle naturally. If not, you will have uneven stretching and the head won't last you as long.

Let me re-state:

Quote:

---

Thread Guidelines
Post your tuning methods for the world to see. Tell us what kind of sound you are going for and have achieved. Tell us what heads you are using and even the tools you have on hand to tune the heads. Go into every detail on your tuning method (I don't want to see any one line tuning descriptions). Tell us what has and hasn't worked for you. Like any other thread, if your post is off-topic it will be deleted. If your post is not in a descriptive format it will be deleted. There isn't any need for conversation to go on between members in this thread. Let us make this a pure reference thread for members to easily find different tuning methods without having to read through garbage. This can be an invaluable guide for somebody to find information if it is done right.

---

what kind of foam on that website would you use Toe?

High Density, Medium Firm

I ordered the foam for our basses and it has worked wonders for both my high school line and my indy line. To totally outfit 5 basses it cost 57.00 that includes shipping, and spray adhesive. I highly recommend Toe's foam hook up. In the indoor setting we are i think the only local line using a 28" and pulling it off without the judges eating us alive. The drums sound sweet. Thanks Toe for the advice.

Glad it's working for you. Good luck

Now that is some cheap foam.. Thanks for the info!

Does anyone have tuning tips, and sounds/note pitches for this set of drums:

16
20
24
28

Im thinking of either buying the line a 22, or a 30 what do you guys think? either way, Im anxious to hear your thoughts

Use what sounds best to you.

If you're anxious to hear what people think, search the site....I think I've contributed to a few bass drum tuning threads which we've gotten pretty detailed on the subject.

How do the musical situations of the show effect how you tune. two or three people said something about it but no one really elaborated.

NEVER GLUE FOAM TO THE SHELL! My line had it like that and the foam wasn't exactly the same amount touching on each head and they sounder weird. Our new drum caption head took them out, we got mx-1, I like the sound if you have something that you really want muffled use the other hand!

Anyone use those drum dials to help tune basses? If so, any luck?

the drum dials dont really work for the simple reason that some lugs are harder to turn than others even though they may be putting out the same amount of tension.

i had my experiences tuning a set of bass drums for the first time about 2 weeks ago.
there was a set of evans MX2 heads sitting about in our drum room so i decided to put em on our basses for our last indoor competition.
yamaha field corps series drum sizes 18" 20" 22" 24"
the bottom drum i left rather loose and filled with newspaper, like our instructor had it at the beginning of the season. i tuned it a little higher so it would be more forgiving on diddles. every drum after that i left all the pads on under the plastic film and i tucked the foam glued on the last heads under the film, above the pads. i tuned the bassline relative to the pitch of the bottom drum, to what i heard in my head. this turned out to be somewhere around a major seventh chord.

end result? the basses sounded appropriate for an indoor environment, articulate although perhaps a bit low. i didnt want to crank the top drum any higher because a couple of the lugs started feeling a bit 'iffy' to me and i didnt want any broken drums a week before our competition.
the only problems were that the heads sounded horrible if hit anywhere but dead center.

really?
someone was trying to sell me one that worked like a torque wrench, you set it to a tension and it wouldnt let you spin it anymore when it got there

edit: ok i looked it up, drum dial is what you meant? i havent heard anything about them. i thought you meant torque drum key

http://www.drumdial.com/precision_drum_tuners_made_in_us.htm

Just trying to make sure I wasn't crazy. I tuned a set of tenors with one of these once, years ago. As I recall it worked great, though I think it's overkill for marching applications (they're $90). I have some friends that are borderline tone deaf when it comes to clearing a head, so it might be good for people that don't hear pitches well. From the site:

"Measures Timpanic Pressure, not Tension Rod Torque"

Toe, tuning all of the basses in fourths would cause sevenths between 5-3 and 3-1 if I'm not mistaken...am I?

On head pre-stretching(?), I've seen/heard of people that do more intense things, like having someone small stand on the heads and possible jump a little bit.

At the college I attend, we used six basses last year, and our tech tuned them from the bottom(a 32"), at it's lowest reasonable pitch because:
1) it the pitch is too low, it projects even less than it would normally and,
2) if it's too high top bass will be a snare drum

We did 6-fifth-5-fourth-4-fourth-3-major third(fourth if we're feeling lucky)-2-minor third(major third with the fourth from 3-2)-1

First, we make sure the head is in tune with itself, and then crank it with quarter turns. We lightly muffle a head with one hand and play the drum on the other side with the mallet, and tune each side to the same pitch that way. We use Evans MX1's and use the provided muffling.

Basses 1,3, & 5 would be the same pitch...only different octaves...as with basses 2 & 4.

There's no "Wrong" way to tune basses...if you choose to go with actual notes (my bass tech when i marched drumcorps would use a tuner and the drums sounded sweet) go for it.

I personally go with perfect 4ths across. I have tuned bottom to a 5th for that power chord sound, and it's worked out nicely also.

As for having someone small stand on a bass drum head to stretch the head out....seriously, does it sound like a good idea? Put the heads on...tighten the heads finger tight..half turn on each rod...check to see if the head is evenly cranked by checking the pitch right under each claw...once the head is cleared....1 full turn on each (going in a star pattern).

Let the heads settle for a few hours....or a day if you have the time, crank again. By this time the heads should be fine to play on...then crank again after use, to allow the head to settle more.

hey i had a question i have some new remo heads and got some of those yamaha muffle strips does it matter if i put the muffle on the inside or outside of the head. which do you guys usually do? thanks

yes it matters a lot.

I go on the outside, one ring, all the way around each drum. but you better be a pretty good tuner to do that.... most other go inside...

I put muffling on the inside of the drum shell but have it stick out a little to press against the head a bit.

Well yeah, the foam has to be touching the head.

There's no right or wrong way to foam basses...people go outside and others go inside....

There isn't much of a difference in sound as much as cosmetic. When you foam outside the head, you need to replace the foam after each head change. Plus you run the risk of the foam getting ruined because of rain and stuff.

When you foam on the inside, you won't necessarily have to change it when replacing heads.

Its all preference.

I heard somewhere the reason The Cadet's drums sound like they're hitting a basketball was because of the foam on the outside of the head. Could you explain that at all?

Well, when i marched drumcorps, our Bass tech put the foam on the outside of the drum. Our drums had that "Pang" basketball sound. They sounded good from far though...which is what counts.

One theory could be, that foam being attached to the shell, doesnt allow the shell to vibrate as much, and putting the foam on the outside gives the drum its natural sound. BUt i'm no scientist...so -shrug-

And to elaborate a little bit on Toe's statement:

When he says that the "pang" sounds good from far away, it's important to realize that deadening a head until it sounds good from 15 feet away will sound like garbage from the box. While we don't want the bass drums to ring until the end of time, it's important for them to sound a little bit ringy when we're close, because that resonance and projection will carry the sound (but not the irritating timbre) up to where it counts: the audience's ears.

I've only seen the Cadets once, and I dont really remember the bass drums all to great, the show wasnt that good. But do they really sound diffrent from that far? I thought that it sounded like a basketball pang no matter the distance.

Well, I work closely with the bass tech from Infinity Percussion (WGI PIW, he comes in to our (STRYKE) camps and checks us out, and I help him with different tuning techniques and foaming techniques. One thing I showed him a couple of camps ago, was the difference in sound from up close and far away.

From far...say your seat in the stadium...you may not hear the "pang" sound unless the Bass line was up close to the sideline. However, from far, the drums would sing and have a great tone.

My personal preference...the drier the better..NOT DEAD. just a little less ring.

You have to be careful with foam - you tend to over-muffle as has been stated. I like the Remo Powermax Black Suede or Evans MX series where the muffling is a ring on the head. I think this produces great sound close up and at the box.

I have to point out that none of your drums will be in octaves if you tune your drums with a perfect fourth between each drum.

If Bass 5 is C, then 4 would be F, 3 would be Bb, 2 would be Eb, and 1 would be Ab. No octaves.

To get the octaves that you are mentioning you would have to tune alternating perfect 5th's and 4th's between drums.

Bass 5 is C (up P5) Bass 4 is G (up P4) Bass 3 is C (up P5) Bass 2 is G (up P4) Bass 1 is C

I have had experience with many different styles of tuning and muffling, and I have also discussed and debated them with the likes of big-name percussion people that have marched in some of the best corps with the best basslines and people that have been teaching for decades. I have experienced everything from stock heads with no muffling to outside muffling to inside muffling to powermax to evans to pillows to kick drum EQ pads to plastic shopping bags. Everything matters when it comes to getting a good sound. Also, the term "good sound" ultimately comes down to the best sound YOU want from your drums with respect to the drums you have, the setting you are playing in, and the players you are working with.

The bass tech at Crown taught me the most about tuning and muffling heads. There we used (of course) the green heads. They were Remo Emperors (2-ply; one ply plain smooth white and the other a clear laminate of the wood lacquer) that we had the great opportunity of being able to change them once every few weeks. Even so, the normal white Emperors are a good long-lasting head, but you need chops to get a good sound out of them. I personally like to use Ambassadors for high school lines if you have the means to replace them after every season. I try to avoid Evans bass heads just because their pre-existing muffling systems that every band director seems to find so convenient just aren't worth the hassle.

The first step is to "crinkle" the head right out of the box. Take your thumbs and just press along the crown of the head producing an obnoxious crackling sound. This will get any odd dents out of the edge of the head. Clean the bearing edge of the drum with a cloth and then place the head on the drum. Always, ALWAYS apply lithium grease to each and every tension rod between each head change. Finger tighten the tension rods evenly and then give them a quarter turn or so with a drum key. This is where you sit on the head, putting all your weight on it (a fun concept to pull out when changing heads with high-schoolers, getting that "are you serious?!" look before not even hesitating to sit on one of their drums) .This is ok to do, as a cranked drum puts way more pressure on a drum head than sitting on it does. After you "seat" the head, loosen the tension rods enough so that you can move the head around. Then have the player pick up the drum so you can adjust the logo on the drum (for aesthetic's sake). After you do this, tighten the lugs again so that the adjustment to the head stays.

Put the drum on a stand (or have the player wear it if stands are not available) and clear the head. This is easiest by clearing at the lowest clear pitch the head gives (just past the "crinkle point"). I usually start by putting a finger on the center of the head (to cut overtones) and testing each lug for equality. The check method for clearing is to hit in the center of the drum and listen for a clear tone. If the tone is wavy (like two horns out of tune with each other), it means you are not done. After you have cleared the head, apply the muffling.

I like to muffle on the outside of the drum because it provides a clear, dry attack with just enough resonance. (the foam on the outside creates more attack sound, foam on the inside creates more tone) At crown we had the yamaha sound impact strips (and a lot of it to spare) and that worked great. For my high school line, I have been using 1 1/4" by 1 1/4" air conditioner foam from Lowe's and applying it with all-weather caulk. The only downside about these are they come in packaging 47" long (not enough for the circumference of a 20" drum) and when you take them out of the packing, there are bends and creases in it that sometimes work themselves out. However, I will definitely try Toe's online source for foam, it seems like a great resource.
I generally put a full ring of foam on all of the drums except for the top drum (usually an 18 for me), just so the top voice can still be heard with some tone for those tasty rolls.

From here, I tune (on stands or carried) by quarter turns at a time, making sure that the head stays true throughout. Normally I crank the drums and let them sit overnight to let the heads sit and the caulk set, then start fine tuning the next day.

I have been experimenting with different tunings. At Crown we did a perfect fourth between 5 and 4, then minor thirds all the way up. At West Chester, we have 6 drums, so I tune to the overtone series; perfect fifth, perfect fourth, major third, minor third, minor third (so, in C: C2, G2, C3, E3, G3, Bb3). That one is big on preference. In general, too little of an interval (smaller than a m3) makes it hard to hear the different pitches, and too large of an interval between drums (4ths, 5ths, or larger) inhibits understanding all the drums as a coherent part. This one really requires some experimentation. I used to go with a tuner, but I find that it is more important to hear what pitch your drums sound best at, rather than defining a pitch to go with the music you are playing.

Tuning the bass ensemble is an art, and each ensemble has it's own needs and the tuner (or "artist") must find a method of tuning that best fits his/her ensemble. Experimentation is key and there is no end-all be-all tuning method that "works" everyone has different drums, different heads, different players, and different budgets. You have to make the best of what you have, and remember that the term "best" is determined by YOU.

I hope this helped anyone who was still wondering.

Here's a link to my recommended muffling method: Bass Drum Muffling Method

This has worked great for lots of basslines: Cavaliers, Illini drumline, Prospect HS, Chicago Bears, Chicago Bulls, Crystal Lake Strikers, etc.


Dale

Although if you want that evenness he described a tritone between each drum is an option. I can't help but wonder what that would sound like, though...

I use a similar system to Toe. First I put the foam in the drum, but instead of going all the way across the shell I put 2 strips that are about 3-4" from either barring edge all the way around the drum. I think that if you have too much muffling on the inside of the drum it will not resonate like it should. What's the point of having several plies of expensive wood like maple if all you are going to do is choke out the resonance?

Everything else, aside form the intervals Toe said, I agree with.


I think Mike Mac and the boys at bluecoats (at least that's where they were when they made this article) said this the best-

We tune our drums to a major chord. Between basses 1 and 2: minor 3rd, 2 and 3: Major 3rd, 3 and 4: Perfect 4th, 4 and 5: Perfect 5th. This gives the bass line a nice intervallic relationship between all the drums. For an indoor percussion setting, we recommend trying to spread the intervals in the top 3 basses further to perfect 4ths since the pitches more easily run together in a “boomy” indoor venue.

I think something that has been overlooked to is basedrum mallets. I know this is a tuning tread but I believe that mallet selection has just as much to do with articulation as foam or other muffling. I would recommend at the very least to make sure you have mallet sizes relevant to the size drum. For instance the Vic Firth mallets are numbered as they represent the number of drum. The 1 drum gets the #1 mallet and so on. Having mallets that are more than 2 drums apart (using 3's on 5) will not get you the articulation and sound production you want. Also, playing with felt that is soft,out-of-round, or other such problems with severely hurt your bassdrum sound. As techs make sure you fight to replace your bassdrum mallets every season or at least once a year!