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#198030 - 12/19/09 11:54 PM Re: The dude on the end. [Re: 9Volt]
Beeds Offline
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Registered: 09/20/08
Loc: Kansas
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I'll address the treatment part:

As center snare this year, I made it my duty to really push both ends of my line further than I'd push anything else. Sure it sucks to be end, but those two guys got so much out of it, not from me, but of the responsibility they cannot evade. They are, in essence, the bonds between battery sections. My bands theory is end snare, if connected with tenors, basses, trumpets...whatever, you are to listen to both center snare and whatever the other section is. As center, I listened to both my snares and the section by us to make ABSOLUTELY sure we were tracking right. It really got our drumline on the same tick, and we rarely had many phrasing issues at all during the season. Now, backfield marching with no backfield conductor, another story...

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#198054 - 12/21/09 11:13 AM Re: The dude on the end. [Re: Beeds]
Jeff Offline
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Registered: 07/22/09
Loc: Mesquite, Texas
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All the year's I marched in the snare line I've been one end or the other - three years of DCI, five years in college, one in DCA. It's a tough role, especially if the one person inside of you isn't a stong player either. I was not a very strong player or had great timing most of those years plus the fact I'm always the shortest. (5'4" and under 120 lbs.)

Now I'm heavier but no taller. I've been going to camps for our local DCA drumline and I've been put in the center and designated the 'listening point drum'. Even though the guys on either side of me are each more than five inches taller than me. I'm sure it looks a bit funny. It's a really hard change to make; yes I'm a better drummer now and I would say my timing is better relative to the other players that have been there in the last couple of months, but I'm so used to listening and matching other players, I have to keep reminding myself that I'M RIGHT now and they are counting on me to be the rock. I have no experience being 'the guy who taps off' and it's a bit shaky, but I've been practicing and I think it'll get there.


Edited by Jeff (12/21/09 11:14 AM)
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88-91 Hawkeye Band
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#198075 - 12/21/09 11:52 PM Re: The dude on the end. [Re: Jeff]
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Registered: 12/17/07
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I marched the end of Troy's Snareline this year, and yeah I won't lie... there were times when I wanted to pull my hair out. There is definatly more responsibility on the end than many spots. I'd even hazard to say that the only people with more responsibility are the center snares. (at least in my experience anyway)

Basically the point of this post is:
1) Yeah being on the end sucks, but you really do get the most out of your playing by being on the end for at least one season. Plus, its like Madoldskool said: "This is a future section leader candidate"

2) To all the people on the end, and frustrated to the point of pulling their hair out: Keep with it. You might get fussed at more, and you might have more responsibility than anyone except center, but your patience will be rewarded with a better line because of you.

3) To all the section leaders, who have and maybe haven't been there: One thing that is MAJORLY effective when dealing with dirt from the end (or any part of the line), is to switch the line's order during your warm-up routine. (A.K.A, put your two center snares on the end, so that you have a center snare on the end pushing the tempo, as well as giving the end snares somebody else to listen to.) We tried this one night before a rehearsal, and the line's performance as a whole was 10 times cleaner that night than the whole season.


Edited by CarrollDrummer (12/21/09 11:53 PM)
Edit Reason: I failed spelling

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#198106 - 12/22/09 07:40 PM Re: The dude on the end. [Re: CarrollDrummer]
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Loc: Lafayette, La
moving with the posts in the thread...
After my first 3 years in corps, I felt that I would definitely split center, my first year in college. On the previous DCI tour I placed well and had a high score in the I&E competition, but I ended up 1 inside the end. Our staff consisted of Jon Burbank and Mike Stevens(Cadets tecs/alums). They were so harsh on me, everything I did was wrong, and I ended up hating them personally. Tempo, Tempo, Tempo, was all I heard from them. They would make play segments for the whole line, and then expose all of my mistakes, never telling me what I needed to do to fix it. In 1999 Jeff Prosperie became our percussion guy, and I was asked to rejoin the drumline. In 2000 we did PASIC, and let me say marching with Jon and Mike was an honor, as well as playing a Prosperie book. Our snare feature was nuts(I'll drunk drum it), the first time we played it as a line, Prosperie called only 4 ticks. At the end of the season, Mike tells me the he couldn't believe that I was drumming on that level, and he was very much impressed...so at the end of the day, I became a contributor due to the torture that they put me through...I played snare in Mike's senior recital, by his request. So awesome
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#198352 - 01/05/10 05:28 PM Re: The dude on the end. [Re: TitanTenor]
akeith5913 Offline
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Registered: 07/10/07
Loc: Northbrook, IL
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Originally Posted By: TitanTenor
I do listen to my section, however, we listen in to the middle o everything for tempos, etc


If that's what you're taught to do then by all means keep doing it that way. I just feel like you're living an exercise in futility. You listen to your section for cleanliness but you also listen to "middle of everything" for tempos and such. To me that's like trying to read two books at the same exact time. If you could just listen to the player inside of you for everything then it would make life so much easier.
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Univ. of Ky - Tenors, '89-'91
Cavaliers - Tenors, '91-'92
Chicago Bears Drumline - Tenors, '05-'09

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#198373 - 01/06/10 08:58 PM Re: The dude on the end. [Re: akeith5913]
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Registered: 03/09/09
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: akeith5913
Originally Posted By: TitanTenor
I do listen to my section, however, we listen in to the middle o everything for tempos, etc


If that's what you're taught to do then by all means keep doing it that way. I just feel like you're living an exercise in futility. You listen to your section for cleanliness but you also listen to "middle of everything" for tempos and such. To me that's like trying to read two books at the same exact time. If you could just listen to the player inside of you for everything then it would make life so much easier.


@akeith: I totally agree with you. I marched to the right of the center tenor this year and started out trying to listen to the center snare. I was often times confused because the end snare beside me rarely played clean. I started listening to the center tenor and it made life soooo much easier.

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#198392 - 01/07/10 06:41 PM Re: The dude on the end. [Re: AppTenors]
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Registered: 01/01/10
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Well last marching band season was my first time marching tenors and only my second season in battery (winterline the year before was my first) and I had a b*tch of a section leader who pretty much made me, and almost everyone else on the line at one point, want to quit. So it was pretty tough haha. But really it was also a great experience because i had the most expectations on me to get my chops up and nail everything i needed to, so it kind of became second nature at a point and it's really just made everything now easier. I'm still on the end of the line this indoor season but it's way easier to do and the previous section leader quit after punching another kid in the face (yeah, drumline kids are supposed to be tight with eachother, right? not her...) and after last season I've got to the point where my hands are literally second only to our center snare and I'm not quad section leader because she's had 2 more years expierence than me. So yeah I'd say it was good and helpful overall haha.
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#198408 - 01/07/10 08:51 PM Re: The dude on the end. [Re: McHitman]
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Registered: 07/26/04
Loc: Lafayette, La
For everyone that is talking about listening to the center, what about the metronome? I mean in our individual practice. Are we playing to true time, or blending in to the heard sounds. I'm a firm believer in playing with a metronome with one's self and with one's ensemble.
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#198418 - 01/08/10 09:47 AM Re: The dude on the end. [Re: madoldskool]
akeith5913 Offline
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Registered: 07/10/07
Loc: Northbrook, IL
Originally Posted By: madoldskool
For everyone that is talking about listening to the center, what about the metronome? I mean in our individual practice. Are we playing to true time, or blending in to the heard sounds. I'm a firm believer in playing with a metronome with one's self and with one's ensemble.


I thinks that's a valid question. I've always advised my students to use their metronome when practicing individually and my met is a staple at my drumline rehearsals. So, in essence, we practice to true time but it's not a constant tool throughout practice. What I don't want is the metronome to become a crutch and that is why I'll ask a drum major to stand in front of the line and conduct as much as possible. I still want my players listening inside but the met helps instill the tempo of the music into their brains. Especially during the early part of the season. You have to be carefull about using it constantly in a marching band situation. You have to practice the way you want to perform and you're not going to get a met on the starting line.
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Cavaliers - Tenors, '91-'92
Chicago Bears Drumline - Tenors, '05-'09

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#198531 - 01/13/10 12:08 AM Re: The dude on the end. [Re: 9Volt]
Tenor Bob Offline
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Registered: 10/13/09
Loc: District 17, Ohio, USA
I was in an oddball position. I came from a small school with a full line of ten. That's 5 basses, 3 snares, and 2 tenors. And in almost all our formations, the drum line was organized in a line. VERY FEW TIMES did we form some kinda block.

So, the snares, since there was only three, didn't have much difference in movement. However, the tenors and the larger basses had quite a bit at times. Anyways, common practice would declare that the better of two tenors sits closer to the middle of the line. That wasn't the case for me at my old school. I was drum line captain, and the only 4-year tenor player the school had seen, and HAS seen to date (we only march 9th and up). All through school, I got placed on the end.

Why? Because I was the best marcher. I had a better sense of where I needed to be, and had the skills (not to mention the legs, cuz I'm 6'1") to get there, so I had to set everything. When you think about it, it makes sense. If the ends of your forms are consistently where they need to be, the rest of the line doesn't need to work as hard to find their spots. If the ends are right, and the line must fit in the space, less can go wrong. It's a good approach, especially when the connecting tenor is really good as well. He was just as capable as I was at listening in, so there was no issue.
---
Also, I remember when I was a freshman. The seniors in the line HATED me, because I was a freshman tenor player. I outscored everyone but the center snare int he audition, and she only beat me by two points (94 to 96, with 100 being perfect). So they resented me for that. I got even BETTER just to spite them, because I knew that no amount of kind words would change their views about me, so friendship wasn't an option.

And I can honestly say as a vet, when I was a senior, that I was nothing but supportive of the new guys. In fact, I liked the new guys better than I liked a lot of the older ones. I didn't give them hell, because that doesn't make conditions any better for rehearsal or performance. I wanted them to be good, so I kept pushing for them to get better in a proactive way, rather than tear them down and say things like "if we fail to get a Superior rating, it's your fault". The line is the line. It isn't divided by class standing. It's really not even divided by voice, since all the voices act as a unit 90% of the time (the other 10% being feature runs throughout the show). The line is a unit. It's a line. It's one voice. If we didn't make the rating, it's because we as a whole didn't play up to that level. No reason for blaming freshman, especially when they can almost outplay the vets.
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