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#187746 - 05/11/09 12:57 AM Re: SNARE TUNING thread [Re: Gonzo]
Javier Offline
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Does anyone know how the blue devils tune their snares. I was listening I to them on you tube and thought to myself " wow they sound good". Anyway I just wanted to know if anyone knew for sure what king of heads they use and what pitches they use for snare guts and bottom heads if any. Also if they used tape on their snares or any other kind of muffling stratagies. If someone could get back to me this would be deeply appreciatted.

Thanks, Javier

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#188279 - 05/22/09 07:09 AM Re: SNARE TUNING thread [Re: Gonzo]
Javier Offline
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Originally Posted By: Gonzo
Update:

Just a little more info for whoever wants it...the BD that I work for showed me how he tunes his drums. He went to a couple Blue Devils clinics to learn what he knows. The batter head is tuned to a D, and the bottom head to a B (minor thirds, top head higher). Guts to a low pitch, so they don't get overtightened. The snares on my line are slightly bowed on either side, not just resting on the bottom head, to get a little more response. The guts are tightened just enough to get a response from the batter (top) head, maybe a little more but not overtightened. The BD is 51, and he's been a teacher for 17 years. I have to say for him not being a drummer, he has an excellent way of tuning drums. I hope this helps you guys out.


Yeah really like the way blue devils snares sound. Can someone clarify what a minor 3rd is. So for the bottom head it's a B right and then you go up 3 halfsteps?... I think. So then it's C Flat, then it's C, then it's D Flat. Are those the 3 halfsteps? Then D is the pitch for the top head. Right? Any way basically the top will be a little higher than the bottom in the end.

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#188288 - 05/22/09 10:07 AM Re: SNARE TUNING thread [Re: Javier]
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Originally Posted By: Gonzo
The snares on my line are slightly bowed on either side, not just resting on the bottom head, to get a little more response.


If the guts are bending as they cross the bearing edge, it actually reduces snare response since it pushes the guts away from the head. Think of it like a see-saw, with the bearing edge being the fulcrum. If you push one side down, the other gets pushed up. (If you look really closely as you tune your snare guts, you can observe this.)

Originally Posted By: Javier
Can someone clarify what a minor 3rd is.


A minor third is an interval of three semitones (half-steps). For example, C to Eb is a minor third. From C, one half step up would be C#. Two half steps would get you to D. Three half steps and you're at D#, aka Eb.

Originally Posted By: Javier
So for the bottom head it's a B right and then you go up 3 halfsteps?... I think. So then it's C Flat, then it's C, then it's D Flat.


If you look at a keyboard instrument, you'll notice there's no accidental between B and C, so "C flat" is B natural. Starting at B natural, going up one half step gets you to C natural. Two half steps gets you to C#. Three half steps and you're at D natural.

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#188297 - 05/22/09 05:35 PM Re: SNARE TUNING thread [Re: SkyDog]
Javier Offline
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Thanks Man...... I have an extremely better understanding of this process now.

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#188298 - 05/22/09 05:48 PM Re: SNARE TUNING thread [Re: Javier]
Javier Offline
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Originally Posted By: Javier
Originally Posted By: Gonzo
Update:

Just a little more info for whoever wants it...the BD that I work for showed me how he tunes his drums. He went to a couple Blue Devils clinics to learn what he knows. The batter head is tuned to a D, and the bottom head to a B (minor thirds, top head higher). Guts to a low pitch, so they don't get overtightened. The snares on my line are slightly bowed on either side, not just resting on the bottom head, to get a little more response. The guts are tightened just enough to get a response from the batter (top) head, maybe a little more but not overtightened. The BD is 51, and he's been a teacher for 17 years. I have to say for him not being a drummer, he has an excellent way of tuning drums. I hope this helps you guys out.


Yeah really like the way blue devils snares sound. Can someone clarify what a minor 3rd is. So for the bottom head it's a B right and then you go up 3 halfsteps?... I think. So then it's C Flat, then it's C, then it's D Flat. Are those the 3 halfsteps? Then D is the pitch for the top head. Right? Any way basically the top will be a little higher than the bottom in the end.


When you say you tune the bottom head to a B, is that the dead center of the head or each individual lug?


Edited by Javier (05/22/09 05:49 PM)

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#188588 - 05/27/09 10:48 PM Re: SNARE TUNING thread [Re: Gonzo]
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Originally Posted By: Gonzo
I posted something on cavaliers.org, and Paul replied with this. I don't agree with cutting the snares down so there are only eight. Otherwise, it is pretty straightforward.

1. Tuning Your Marching Snare Drum
This short document is a step-by-step how-to guide on successfully tuning a Yamaha sFz snare drum. First, we must define the type of sound that is desired in our performing and practicing situations. Next, we must discuss top and bottom head changing and general care, and individual snare tuning.
Sound
The most important word to consider when tuning a snare line in an advanced, contemporary field percussion ensemble, is "short". It is important to see that "high" doesn't necessarily mean "short". Therefore, it is important to check other aspects of tuning the snare drum that doesn't necessarily involve the drum heads themselves. The snare sound should be crisp and articulate, with little or no after-ring.
The Bottom Head
The bottom head, or "snare-side head" should often be tuned first; it is often the bottom head that determined the "shortness" of a drum's sound. Here are the steps to changing and tuning a snare-side head:
1. Take the old head off and throw it away. Check to see if any tension rods (lugs) are bent, or washers are missing. Check tension rods by placing on the ground and rolling; if there is a "wobble", they need to be replaced. Do not take the tension rods from the rim, unless they are bent. When replacing a tension rod, dip about 1/8th of an inch of the new rod into Vaseline, and then place it back into rim.
2. Take a clear plastic bottom head, and spread paraffin wax (used on surf boards and for canning veggies) in great amounts along the inside of the head's metal hoop. Continue further inside, for the head will definitely stretch a great deal.
3. After you are sure all tension rods and washers are in good shape, take the rim off (with washers still hanging) and place the new, clear plastic head on the bearing edge. Place the rim back on the drum, and tighten the tension rods lightly until you can no longer move them with your fingers.
4. This step is EXTREMELY IMPORTANT: make sure that the head is on the bearing edge evenly, this means that there is the same amount of space between the bearing edge and the rim all the way around.
5. Tighten each tension rod with a spin key about one quarter turn, starting on the tension rod (lug) immediately to the left of front center (about 7 o'clock) and goi8ng around in a clockwise manner. This will be referred to as the "reference lug". Then check the spacing of the rim and the bearing edge again. Check the rim to avoid any "roller coaster" (rippled heads) effects early on. If you neglect this step, the head will already be unbalanced; this significantly shortens its life and allows only about half of its full cranking (tuning) capacity.
6. After complete evenness is achieved, begin on the reference lug, and tighten in 180 degree increments (half turns), But continue ACROSS THE DRUM rather than around. Be careful to keep track of where you are! Continue for about 3 revolutions about the rim, then wait a few minutes for the head to stretch. Then continuing again, in the same increments, until the pitch is high enough that its sound blends with the top head's sound. Of course, it won't be as tight, but it shouldn't be significantly lower.
7. Before each rehearsal or performance, tighten the head CLOCKWISE in 1/8-1/4 turns all the way around, being sure always to start with the reference lug and end with the one before it.
8. Be careful not to base your tuning entirely on feel. Always be looking at the rim to avoid unevenness.
9. Above all, keep tuning your bottom head. This head is always changing, especially with climactic inconsistencies. If the drum sounds bad, check the bottom head. But if it sounds great, leave it alone=)


The Top Head
We use Premier Tendura brand top heads, which are made of an extremely durable and bullet proof material called "KevlarŪ." These heads are strong enough that without proper care while tuning, significant damage can be done to the free floating top unit of the sFz. This damage comes in the form of "egging" (ovaling of the rim). Once a top unit is "egged", a new head will no longer fit its dimensions. Here are the steps in tuning a top head:
1. Follow step one, for bottom head tuning.
2. Paraffin wax is applied, but rather than to the head itself, apply a healthy amount to the metal bearing edge.
3. Follow step 3, above, except be sure that you put the rim back on in the same spot that it was before. To facilitate this, place one tape marker on the rim, and one on the top unit, to signal the correct tension rod placement when the new head is placed on the bearing edge.
4. Follow step 4 as above.
5. Starting with the reference lug, tune the top head in the same way as you would tune the bottom head, checking for evenness, etc, except continue to go around the drum, not across. Also, with Tendura heads, it is best to tune them as much at first as possible. In other words, try to make the drum sound high in pitch right away. Once a Tendura settles, it is hard to tune it up again to maximum crispness.
6. Often, if a Tendura has been exposed to unsuitable weather conditions (primarily wetness), it will become "dead" sounding after a number of days. It is recommended simply to change a head such as this, as it will never sound good again.
Tuning the Snares
Often a "wet" sounding snare drum is the result of poorly tuned snares. If the snares are too lose, they sound wet, or long. If they are too tight, they sound choked off, and cause the drum to ring significantly. If one is having trouble getting the drum to sound short, it is helpful to check the snare tuning. Tune the snare in the following way.
1. Obtain a very small flathead screwdriver, and two pencils or pens.
2. Turn the drum over, and throw off the snares (the snare throwoff device is opposite the snare tuning screws).
3. Place a pencil approximately three inches inside the rim, under the snares to suspend the snares for tuning, then throw the snares back on.
4. Plucking the long parts of the snares should give a distinct pitch to each one, like playing a guitar or harp. Starting with the outside snare, tighten or loosen the twelve screws until the pitch is uniform among all snares. Go for a high pitched sound, that resonates well.
5. Keep in mind that once you have tightened one, tightening others will affect the pitch of that one. It is impossible to get all of the snares exactly the same pitch. If they are relatively tight, and are nearly the same pitch, the snare sound should be crisp.
6. If the drum sounds choked off or ringy after tuning the snares, you may have gone too far. Loosen them up a bit, still focusing on a distinct pitch.
7. Also, usually these snares come from the factory with 12 or more snare. We will generally cut off four of these, so that each snare has eight snares. Often too much snare sound results in the "fat" or "long" sound that we so detest.

Paul Milano
FMM 70-74

Although (making this longer), I don't know why it doesn't say to tune to a certain pitch. Because the heads are ever changing (bottom heads)?


On step #4, it says that the step is very important. But I'm trying to figure out how to make sure that the head is absolutely balanced on the bearing edge. Do I just try to feel it out and try to figure out which way to push it or pull it to make it centered?

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#196673 - 11/05/09 10:10 PM Re: SNARE TUNING thread [Re: Gonzo]
Animalmother5150 Offline
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When tuning snares to certain pitches, are you checking the pitch at the lug or the center of the head? and what pitches do you recommend for 13" yamaha sfz's

Thanks in advance
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#196680 - 11/06/09 09:47 AM Re: SNARE TUNING thread [Re: Animalmother5150]
DRUMS11 Offline
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I recommend checking the pitch ~1/2 way to 2/3 in from the edge to the center. Hitting the head in the center produces a fairly dead sound that doesn't give a good, recognizable tone, and near the rim the tone isn't very representative of the fundamental tone produced by the head.

I haven't used 13" snares, but Yamaha has a PDF with tuning recommendations here: http://www.yamaha.com/yamahavgn/Documents/BandOrchestra/Percussion_Tips_Tuning_Tips.pdf

You can probably crank it a bit higher with good results -- I have my 14" batter tuned to ~Eb5 and it sounds good.
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#196683 - 11/06/09 11:16 AM Re: SNARE TUNING thread [Re: DRUMS11]
Animalmother5150 Offline
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Thanks alot DRUMS11, Ihave ssen that PDF before i just didnt know where to check the pitch on the head, and yeah on cranking up a 13" I was thinking about going D5 on the snare side with a Evans MX5 KevlarŪ head and taking the batter up to an F#5 with a MX white.
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#196690 - 11/06/09 12:06 PM Re: SNARE TUNING thread [Re: Javier]
pearldrumguy Offline
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Originally Posted By: Javier
Originally Posted By: Gonzo
Update:

Just a little more info for whoever wants it...the BD that I work for showed me how he tunes his drums. He went to a couple Blue Devils clinics to learn what he knows. The batter head is tuned to a D, and the bottom head to a B (minor thirds, top head higher). Guts to a low pitch, so they don't get overtightened. The snares on my line are slightly bowed on either side, not just resting on the bottom head, to get a little more response. The guts are tightened just enough to get a response from the batter (top) head, maybe a little more but not overtightened. The BD is 51, and he's been a teacher for 17 years. I have to say for him not being a drummer, he has an excellent way of tuning drums. I hope this helps you guys out.


Yeah really like the way blue devils snares sound. Can someone clarify what a minor 3rd is. So for the bottom head it's a B right and then you go up 3 halfsteps?... I think. So then it's C Flat, then it's C, then it's D Flat. Are those the 3 halfsteps? Then D is the pitch for the top head. Right? Any way basically the top will be a little higher than the bottom in the end.


You go off of major scales. Say in C major E is a major 3rd from C, but if I lower the third from E to E flat it is now a minor third. So in this context he said B. So the B major scale is b, c#, d#, e, f#, g#, a#, and back to the tonic. So a major third from b would be d#. So we would lower this pitch a half step to d natural. So this is why d is a minor third from b.

Major Scales
c = c,d,e,f,g,a,b,c
f = f,g,a,b flat,c,d,e,f
b flat = b flat,c,d,e flat,f,g,a,b flat
e flat = e flat,f,g,a flat,b flat,c,d,e flat
a flat = a flat,b flat,c,d flat,e flat,f,g,a flat
d flat = d flat,e flat,f,g flat,a flat,b flat,c,d flat
g flat = g flat,a flat,b flat,c flat(b),d flat,e flat,f,g flat
b = b,c sharp,d sharp,e,f sharp,g sharp, a sharp,b
e = e,f sharp,g sharp,a,b,c sharp, d sharp,e
a = a,b,c sharp,d,e,f sharp,g sharp,a
d = d,e,f sharp,g,a,b,c sharp,d
g = g,a,b,c,d,e,f sharp,g

How to memorize these
Well I put these in order of the circle of fourths(interval of the tonic, c to f, f to b flat, etc). As it went down the list I added one flat each time. The the next scale was the flat i added. The I reached the maximum amount of flats for major scales. Then I moved over to sharps. I started with all the sharps. Then i took one away each time. The one I took away was the next scale. Once I added or took something away it continued with that change. Order of flats, b,e,a,d,g,c,f. Oder of sharps, f,c,g,d,a,e,b. These are the same yet one is in reverse order depending on how you look at it. If anyone wants help in theory send me a message concerning what and I'll be glad to help.


Edited by pearldrumguy (11/06/09 12:09 PM)
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