For some reason the people at my school dont see cymbals as a marching instrument?! when were in the stands they just have the pit players play cymbals? How can i explain to them that cymbals are more than accessory precussion or just a concert band instrument, but that cymbals should be marched at our halftime shows!?

show your band director a vid of SCV he might just change his mind

thanks ill talk to him...

any other ideas guys?

See if you can get your director or your drumline instructor to have a cymbal line for winter drumline. If you can prove that a cymbal line will work there, that might convince him to field one for marching season.

From this instructor's standpoint...

I love marching cymbals if they're done well. On top of all the other teaching that needs to be done, I don't have the time to teach more than the absolute basics of cymbal technique. Because of that, my school doesn't march cymbals. If/when I can find a decent tech, then we'll think about fielding a cymbal line.

I might be forced to eat my words, though. If we have a bunch of incoming students, I don't want to have a 15+ person pit. I simply don't have enough keyboards to accommodate that many bodies.

I'm dealing with this right now.

The only way we're going to manage putting a cymbal line on the field this fall is to have them march cymbals half the show. The other half they'll be a flub line (think star 93, xmen 98)

And there is the irony im talking about, the escuse is always that there isnt enough time to teach the cymbal parts, but no one would ever even concider not marching our base line, even though there is no more time to teach base teqnique(sp?) then there is to teach cymbal technique...cymbals are treated like an accessory...

watch the end of scv's 2007 show. Cymbals add affect, but nod as necessary in a small band, but with a 15 person pit, you should have a couple of cymbal players. It doesn't take as long to teach cymbal technique as snare, tenors, ect. Yes, you do lear cymbal technique in concert band, but that is applied to marching band, thus shouldn't be as hard. I played cymbal for a couple of hours at a football game, and they taught me the basic technique in all of 5 minutes, along with about 3 other people.

First off, bass technique is not dissimilar to any other marching drum technique. That argument, therefore, doesn't hold a lot of water. Secondly, cymbals are treated like an accessory because... well... they are an accessory.

There are a LOT of problems with marching cymbals, particularly at the high school level. Cymbals are an instrument that requires extreme precision; without perfection, the visual and aural presence supports the stereotypical "sucky cymbal player" idea. Secondly, the technique, when taught properly, is MUCH more complex than the simple orchestral crashes present in concert band. There are, most likely, enough sounds to create an entire library of definitions and techniques, as I'm sure Jeff Kozol could explain to you. Thirdly, and probably the least acknowledged problem, is the physical demand of marching cymbals. Cymbals are heavy, they hurt the hands, and chokes and certain crashes take a nasty toll on the arms, chest, stomach, and hips of the person playing them. In high school, a lot of (read: most) kids don't want to play cymbals to begin with, so this creates a certain amount of extra torment that they have to put up with.

In the grand scheme of things, and in my personal opinion, it is better to spend more time teaching correct techniques on less instruments that are more necessary, than to spend less time covering everything for the sake of having an extra subsection.

My bottom line: I love marching cymbals, but not enough to justify becoming lacksadaisical with the education of the rest of the students if it isn't feasible to march them.

jacoismyhero FTW

yeah thats all i was really wondering, its just that i see all these other high school drumlines that heavily utilize cymbals in everything they play and i envy them...

It's okay to envy them. I would too. Just realize that just because your school doesn't have the same type of setup does not constitute your educators being unfair or uninformed about why the instrument is so crucial. It is simply that, in the grand scheme of things, cymbal technique is not something that is always important to touch upon when other things (rightfully) require much more care.

WTF?!

Why would the technique of one section be any less important than another?

wow this could go on forever

From a musical standpoint, most cymbal effects used by high school cymbal lines can be easily duplicated in the pit. This saves the composer from writing "filler" music for the cymbals so they aren't resting for significant periods (as many groups seem to do.) This helps reserve the impact of the cymbal timbre for when it can be most effectively utilized. Also you can have one player in the pit play as many types of cymbals as a director owns during one show, whereas the marching cymbal player is practically limited to one.

From a visual perspective having a cymbal line is impressive, but the time spent cleaning cymbal visuals could be more effectively used repping other parts of the line. And let's face it, if a kid misses a stick visual a few people will notice, if a kid misses a cymbal visual, everyone notices.

For the sake of efficiency a cymbal line isn't really necessary. Don't get me wrong though, if I had the time to clean it and players who wanted to play cymbals, I'd be the first in line to buy a new set of cymbals.

Because the section's existance (on the field) is less important. If there is a cymbal section, then yes, their technique is just as important as the rest of the ensemble. However, the question isn't about their technique, but rather the time and means to teach the technique were a cymbal line to exist. So when the question comes up to a director, and the choice is between good technique to three sections or average technique to four (when the fourth section could be covered by another area of the ensemble), then the obvious choice is to not go with the cymbal line (which is less important in this case).

Just remember, we're talking about a hypothetical section at this point in the game, not a pre-existing section. I think there may have been a little misunderstanding of terms. I don't think Jaco was saying the technique itself was less important, but rather that wasting time trying to teach a technique that will ultimately come across as inadequate teaching for various reasons in that situation makes the cymbal section less important than the other three battery sections.

That's a good point, few people will care in the long run if a cymbal line is absent, but everyone will scream foul if they replaced the snare line with some concert snares in the pit.

cymbals are visually pleasing and do add to you GE score
they are slightly unconventional
dont get me wrong i did march cymbals and we had a sick line and had loads of fun (we played splits like the basses) for most schools it would just turn into that section that everyone starts out in just to get to another drum. if your school can committ to a good cymbal line that is clean and doest just create an eye-sore then by all means you deserve one. be if its too much effort to get people to take it seriously and the fund it (hey the price of metal is going up) than it might not be for your school

telling a director to go watch an scv cymbal line wont cut it. my bd is actually an scv alum and he is against the idea of having a cymbal line. there is no way a high school line can pull it off like scv.

Yup.

Implying that an existing section's worth, musically or visually, is any less important is a very unrational perspective.

However, it was acknowledged that as a result of the pit's ability to duplicate a cymbal line's musical contribution, their visual presence is not a necessity.

Precisely. Thanks, John.

I do love cymbal lines, but I "misspoke" (heh) in my previous post. It wasn't so much the teaching of the technique I was referring to, but rather the existence of the section. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

At first, our band director was like, "oh... you're marching... cymbals?.... cool." That's what it sounded like at least. But, after a while, we were switching instruments and the teacher said "no, the visuals really add to the show effect." He wouldn't let us switch after he saw the difference cymbals made.